1.016

[SnowBlaZeR2]

I've been playing it a little more recently, and some things have been annoying me. All of my perspective is from playing as the Marine Corps so far. I'm sure I'll have more to add later on, and I welcome some discussion on anyone's thoughts. I'm in no way an expert on balancing a mod, or I'd probably have some more insight than this.

The HMMWV is ongoing. I know that it's there for anti-sniper, but how is it supposed to fill that role, when it can't even survive against an engineer squad? Gameplay vs realism is a hard balance to strike, but for a game like this, I should be able to send in an armored vehicle without fear that it will be destroyed by three rifles. The Abrams, MARSOC and AAV all feel pretty useless now. The PLA Amphibious vehicle is ridiculous against nearly everything.

Get rid of the HMMWV altogether. We don't use it, so there's no issues with that. Put in it's place something like the MRZR, IFAV or LSV. Any would fill that role and would be much more acceptable to being destroyed by infantry rifle fire. The M-ATV is an option in a later tier to accompany one of those vehicles.

I've had MARSOC squads defeated by militia, and Abrams being defeated by one PLA AT squad. This is pretty much what I expected to happen with all of the complaining about them, and I wasn't surprised with the outcome. Neither are worth what they cost anymore, and I find myself hardly using them.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm complaining a bit much, but I simply don't enjoy 1.016 for the time being.

[SnowBlaZeR2]

May have spoken too soon about some of it. I still stand by the HMMWV.

[HELLOBANANAPHONE]

What I noticed from our skirmish is that Marines are very vulnerable to being in close combat at all. I had a Marine squad (in no cover) shooting at an Engineer squad (in yellow cover) and the Marine squad lost. Granted, it was poor luck because the Engineer squad ended up getting down to 5% health on each man without losing anyone, but it was eye opening. In this patch, Marines definitely need to use machine guns in support to keep the militia rushes away, because when the militia get into close range with the Marines the Marines will lose much, much harder than regular Army riflemen will.

Also, for 35 munitions, the AAV's Grenade Barrage might be too powerful. It's extremely effective at mauling any infantry the Chinese throw at it even if they're spread apart, doesn't require an upgrade like pineapples do, is long range, and is cheap enough to spam.

[SnowBlaZeR2]

I'm disappointed with the way the Marines work now. That AAV barrage definitely needs to cost more though.

[I_am_a_Spoon]

The HMMWV is ongoing. I know that it's there for anti-sniper, but how is it supposed to fill that role, when it can't even survive against an engineer squad? Gameplay vs realism is a hard balance to strike, but for a game like this, I should be able to send in an armored vehicle without fear that it will be destroyed by three rifles.

I personally agree from a realism perspective, but without susceptibility to small arms the Humvee would simply be too powerful against PLA T0 and T1. Although a Humvee definitely shouldn't lose to an Engineer squad?...

I still believe that the up-armour package would make a good upgrade (rather than it being unlocked at vet 2 for aesthetics).

The Abrams, MARSOC and AAV all feel pretty useless now. The PLA Amphibious vehicle is ridiculous against nearly everything.

Can you elaborate?

I've had MARSOC squads defeated by militia, and Abrams being defeated by one PLA AT squad.

Without further detail this all seems pretty circumstantial and atypical.

I simply don't enjoy 1.016 for the time being.
...
I'm disappointed with the way the Marines work now.

What do you find worse than 1.015? Aside from the MARSOC bug ofc.

[I_am_a_Spoon]

What I noticed from our skirmish is that Marines are very vulnerable to being in close combat at all.

Marines have more individual HP, but as a squad they have roughly 91% the durability of a Riflemen squad. They also do 5% less DPS per man at close range, so a 4-man Marine squad at close-range does only 76% of the DPS a Rifleman squad would do. Combined, these two factors make Marines very vulnerable to Militia (as opposed to Rifleman, who can still hold their own at times).

That said, individual Marines do 30% more damage at long range than Riflemen (14% more on a squad level). If allowed to sit back and plink away at Militia, the Militia will go down fast. So as a PLA player you need to close that gap, which is where USMC players benefit from suppressive fire and grenades. Marine IARs do much less suppression by default than SAWs or QBB-95s do, but have the ability to compensate. They can also fire on the move.

Also, for 35 munitions, the AAV's Grenade Barrage might be too powerful. It's extremely effective at mauling any infantry the Chinese throw at it even if they're spread apart, doesn't require an upgrade like pineapples do, is long range, and is cheap enough to spam.

We're open to suggestions here.

Initially it fired more grenades (in 3 separate bursts) and cost more, but that was changed before the release of 1.016.

[SnowBlaZeR2]

I personally agree from a realism perspective, but without susceptibility to small arms the Humvee would simply be too powerful against PLA T0 and T1. Although a Humvee definitely shouldn't lose to an Engineer squad?...

I still believe that the up-armour package would make a good upgrade (rather than it being unlocked at vet 2 for aesthetics).

I think the armored upgrade would be a nice option. Is there any reason other than the amount of work for not implementing something like an MRZR/M-ATV combo like I mentioned instead? Just asking, I don't want to make it seem like I'm demanding something here.

Can you elaborate? Without further detail this all seems pretty circumstantial and atypical.

I'll get back to you after I've played it a little more. In one game though, I had an Abrams destroyed fighting one squad of AT infantry in yellow cover. I had a MARSOC squad killed by a squad of militia in close quarters. Then the snipers and mortars came. That game had me raging, haha. For the AAV, I didn't initially notice the barrage ability. We're good there.

What do you find worse than 1.015? Aside from the MARSOC bug ofc.

As I've said, it may just be that I'm a still getting used to the changes and how to use everything with those changes. I'm also admittedly biased to the fact that Marines are bad asses. This post wasn't meant to come off as critical as it seemed. Just a little venting and something to get a conversation started about the changes and what everyone though of them.

As far as what I actually don't like about 1.016:

The Harrier overwatch - Harriers don't really provide that type of CAS from a hover, or at least not that I've ever seen.
6 man MARSOC team - already addressed
Still have that HMMWV -
Some other things I can't really think of right now. I'll get a better idea the more I play, and post up some random suggestions.

I did appreciate the renaming of the MARSOC upgrade to SARC. Ours was always quick to remind us that he wasn't a regular Corpsmen.

[I_am_a_Spoon]

Is there any reason other than the amount of work for not implementing something like an MRZR/M-ATV combo like I mentioned instead?

Well each vehicle would need to be modelled, UV-mapped, skinned, imported, animated and coded, and we'd need to create new UI icons and descriptions. So the workload would be considerable.

Adding an M-ATV (or any other MRAP) to T2 or T3 would also create some degree of redundancy. We don't want to become Blitzkrieg, every unit in MC needs to have a clearly-defined role.

I'll get back to you after I've played it a little more. In one game though, I had an Abrams destroyed fighting one squad of AT infantry in yellow cover. I had a MARSOC squad killed by a squad of militia in close quarters.

You play hardcore right?

The Harrier overwatch - Harriers don't really provide that type of CAS from a hover, or at least not that I've ever seen.

That's just until we can get our Super Cobra in-game.

[SnowBlaZeR2]

Well each vehicle would need to be modelled, UV-mapped, skinned, imported, animated and coded, and we'd need to create new UI icons and descriptions. So the workload would be considerable.

Adding an M-ATV (or any other MRAP) to T2 or T3 would also create some degree of redundancy. We don't want to become Blitzkrieg, every unit in MC needs to have a clearly-defined role.

Would it be possible to make the M-ATV functionally similar to the HMMWV with different armor characteristics? I hear you on the work. You guys have already done a ton of work.

MRZR/IFAV replaces HMMWV in Tier 1, M-ATV replaces LAV/AAV in Tier 2, LAV replaces Bradley in Tier 3. That's for the Marine Corps. No ideas how to work it out for the Army. A Mk19 upgrade to the M-ATV would make it an option for Tier 2, and I've always thought the AAV was a little weird in skirmish.

Just some ideas.

You play hardcore right?

Usually, yes. This was actually on normal. I was getting annoyed with it in hardcore, more than usual, so I tried out normal and in that one game I about got into a fight with my keyboard three times.

That's just until we can get our Super Cobra in-game.

Don't play with my emotions. I actually mentioned this to BANANA as something I would like to see added in and possibly the reason for it being there in the first place.

[HELLOBANANAPHONE]

What I noticed from our skirmish is that Marines are very vulnerable to being in close combat at all.

Marines have more individual HP, but as a squad they have roughly 91% the durability of a Riflemen squad. They also do 5% less DPS per man at close range, so a 4-man Marine squad at close-range does only 76% of the DPS a Rifleman squad would do. Combined, these two factors make Marines very vulnerable to Militia (as opposed to Rifleman, who can still hold their own at times).

That said, individual Marines do 30% more damage at long range than Riflemen (14% more on a squad level). If allowed to sit back and plink away at Militia, the Militia will go down fast. So as a PLA player you need to close that gap, which is where USMC players benefit from suppressive fire and grenades. Marine IARs do much less suppression by default than SAWs or QBB-95s do, but have the ability to compensate. They can also fire on the move.

I just meant that was my finding (it's good to know that was the intention), not that it needs to be changed. I'll have to play more with it and against it to decide whether I think it's balanced or not.