My way of balancing the two Abrams

[Campaigner]

A main thing in vCoH is that Wehr vehicles & armor with damaged engines only get their engines fixed once they're fully repaired. US gets that fixed immedietly. I haven't encounced damaged engines in MC enough to see how it works.

vCoH - Wehr got heavy tanks that the US can't deal with costeffectively with their own tanks (just like PLA) so unless the US goes Armor doctrine for the Pershing, he have to rely on ATguns, sticky bombs and to some extent Shermans and Rangers/Airborne.

MC - US got heavy tanks that PLA can't deal with costeffectively with their own tanks (though The Future is Now helps alot) so they have to rely on ATguns, Type 59Ds and RPGtroopers.


The big difference between vCoH and MC here is twofold:

vCoH US got sticky bombs that damage the engine (80% chance) and more stickies will immobilize the unit

Abram is faster than a Tiger and the TUSK is faster than a King Tiger

The slowed down Tigers (with damaged engines) is what opens up for ATguns to be effective (especially with AP rounds)


My list of solutions:

Make the Abram the same speed as the vCoH Tiger

Make the Abram TUSK the same speed as the vCoH King Tiger

Give PLA sticky bombs. Not sure which units should get it

Type 59D upgun or something (not necessary if everything else gets implemented)

Some buff to the Full Mobilization Tank Destroyer

Make US armor (maybe only the two Abrams) behave like Wehr regarding enginedamage

Increase ATgun range to '17 Pounder range

Not all solutions are needed but definetly some of'em.


Realism is of no concern to me.

[The Soldier]

The speed nerfs for the Abrams variants I think aren't needed - It think the TUSK and regular Abrams are fine at the normal Tiger speed. They have a jet engine for god's sake.

Giving the PLA sticky bombs is nice, I could understand the realistic aspects of it.

Type 59 upgun? Meh. Then they could maul infantry and Bradleys even more.

Can'ts say much about the Full Mobilization TD - although from what I've seen, it can already penetrate the front armor of the Abrams and even the TUSK.

Though the AT gun already had good range - altough there is a difference. The 17 Pounder is an emplacement, which justifies massive range becase it's immobile. The AT gun for the PLA is mobile, and can move up to meet the enemy while the 17 Pounder can't.


Thing is, with all of this, the US still lacks good artillery support. The PLA can rain hell on the US while the US can just poke sticks at the PLA with the one 120mm mortar. Also, with the Sticky bombs for the PLA, they were VERY useful versus Panthers. The US has NOTHING compared to the Panther that's non-doctrinal. So it ould get OP at some point. And that's why the US has AT-4s as well, the PLA can get an actual tank while the US can't.

[Darkbladecr]

We have several ideas for M1A2 balance. But mostly will be at the heart of the problem with the Abrams having high hitpoints and armor. You may see some new abilities.

[SnowBlaZeR2]

My list of solutions:

Make the Abram the same speed as the vCoH Tiger

Make the Abram TUSK the same speed as the vCoH King Tiger

The Abrams has a turbine engine and a top speed of over 40 mph. The TIgers were in the low 20s I believe. This is Modern Combat, and realism or not, these tanks should not have similar stats.

Give PLA sticky bombs. Not sure which units should get it

There are other, modern and more realistic ways of dealing with tanks. Why not incorporate IED upgrades for Militia or Regulars, or even stronger shaped mines for other infantry units.

Type 59D upgun or something (not necessary if everything else gets implemented)

Some buff to the Full Mobilization Tank Destroyer

Make US armor (maybe only the two Abrams) behave like Wehr regarding enginedamage

Increase ATgun range to '17 Pounder range

I'd rather see this than a nerf to the Abrams. I like the idea of engine damage. I wonder if it would be possible to require the tank to be near the Armored HQ to have it's engine repaired, or even any repairs at all. That could neutralize it's strength very easily, and is very conceivable considering how advanced it is.

Realism is of no concern to me.

It is to a lot of others that play the mod.

[Campaigner]

Realism is of no concern to me.

It is to a lot of others that play the mod.

I've realized that but I thought they played Hardcore and thus hoped that the two versions could develop differently.


How would IEDs help? Looked it up on wikipedia and it sounds like a type of mine.

I like the idea of requring the Abrams to be close to the Armor HQ.

[SnowBlaZeR2]

I've realized that but I thought they played Hardcore and thus hoped that the two versions could develop differently.

Gotcha. I tend to focus on Hardcore more than I should when I talk about the mod. I still think it needs to be mostly realistic, as I have yet to encounter anyone online that plays Hardcore.

How would IEDs help? Looked it up on wikipedia and it sounds like a type of mine.

IEDs can be any type of explosive really, but when we're talking about tanks it would most likely be stacked and buried AT mines or HE secondary to EFP. Your sticky bomb idea would be possible as well this way, as they've used heavy duty magnets in the past. I don't think it's realistic that they'd have enough explosives to take down a tank though. Probably wouldn't even slow an Abrams down unless it was to stop and eliminate whoever just placed it.

I like the idea of requring the Abrams to be close to the Armor HQ.

I like that idea too.

[South]

Realism is of no concern to me.

It is to a lot of others that play the mod.

I've realized that but I thought they played Hardcore and thus hoped that the two versions could develop differently.

SnowBlazer is right, Realizm is important to the mod, otherwise devs would put M60A3 even M48A5 into the game to "balance" Type 96A and Type 59D.

[SnowBlaZeR2]

SnowBlazer is right, Realizm is important to the mod, otherwise devs would put M60A3 even M48A5 into the game to "balance" Type 96A and Type 59D.

You and your M60.

I'm actually less opposed to adding the M60 than I am to messing with the Abrams. I actually think it's just right. Maybe some upgrades or abilities for the Abrams could be fun, but it works well. It takes a lot of time and resources to get into the fight and once it does, it's a force. I've seen them in action and there isn't a whole lot that will be a threat to eliminating one, even if it does take damage. Most of the destroyed Abrams were damaged and considered battle losses. They ended up being destroyed by another Abrams or an air strike. I don't like the idea of messing with the Abrams, because as I said I think it works well. I think the PLA just needs other options to deal with it.

I think a requirement for being near the Armored HQ for repairs would do wonders. First, you'd have to have the Armored HQ built. You'd also take the Abrams out of the fight for awhile if you were careless and let it take too much damage.

[South]

SnowBlazer is right, Realizm is important to the mod, otherwise devs would put M60A3 even M48A5 into the game to "balance" Type 96A and Type 59D.

You and your M60.

I'm actually less opposed to adding the M60 than I am to messing with the Abrams. I actually think it's just right. Maybe some upgrades or abilities for the Abrams could be fun, but it works well. It takes a lot of time and resources to get into the fight and once it does, it's a force. I've seen them in action and there isn't a whole lot that will be a threat to eliminating one, even if it does take damage. Most of the destroyed Abrams were damaged and considered battle losses. They ended up being destroyed by another Abrams or an air strike. I don't like the idea of messing with the Abrams, because as I said I think it works well. I think the PLA just needs other options to deal with it.

I think a requirement for being near the Armored HQ for repairs would do wonders. First, you'd have to have the Armored HQ built. You'd also take the Abrams out of the fight for awhile if you were careless and let it take too much damage.

I think the requirement of being near the Armored HQ is not a good idea, unless there's a M88 ARV or a M728 CEV to pull damaged M1A2 back to the Armored HQ.

[South]

Also about M60, I prefer some modern but not been adopted weapon prototypes is better than outdated weapons. such as XM1202 FCSMGV and three AGSes.