CoH: Modern Combat

In the new Patch 1.016,the US has Army and Marine,but the PLA only have ground force.So I designed the 15th Airborne Crops.
HQ:
Airborne Pioneers(4-men squad)
Weapon:Type 85 SMG
Upgrade:FPH-02B Flamethrower,Minesweeper
Ability:Build,Repair,Throw Satchel Charge,Wire Cutter

WZ751 Medical Evacuation Vehicle
Weapon:QJC-88 12.7mm HMG
Ability:Medical Station(Don't need any munitions)

Tier 1:
15th Airborne(5-men squad)
Weapon:QBZ-03 5.8mm Assault Rifle
Upgrade:QBU-88 Marksman Rifle,QLB-06 Semi-Auto Grenade Launcher(need Tier 2)
Ability:Type 86 Grenade,PF-89 disposable rocket launcher(all need to upgrade)

SX-1 Airborne Assault Vehicle
Weapon:QJY-88 5.8mm HMG
Upgrade:QJZ-89 12.7mm HMG
Ability:Carry 5 people(or 1 squad,before upgrading),the people can shot out and they can be shotted by the enemy.

Marksman Team(2-men squad)
Weapon:CS/LR 4 Manual Sniper Rifle(the Marksman),QBZ-03 Assault Rifle(the Observer)
Upgrade:None
Ability:Camouflage(must be in the blindage)

Global Upgrade:Individual Equipment
Give 15th Airborne Type 86 Grenade and PF-89 Disposable Rocket Launcher

Tier 2:
Recoilless Gun Squad(3-men squad)
Weapon:Type 78 82mm Recoilless Gun
Upgrade:Another Type 78 82mm Recoilless Gun
Ability:None

LMG Team(3-men squad)
Weapon:QJY-88 5.8mm LMG
Ability:None

“China Scorpion” 82mm Rapid-Fire Mortar Carrier
Weapon:W99 82mm Rapid-Fire Mortar
Carrier:“Iron Eagle” SUV
Ability:82mm Mortar Bombardment,Smoke Screen
or
W99 82mm Rapid-Fire Mortar(3-men squad)
Weapon:W99 82mm Rapid-Fire Mortar
Ability:82mm Mortar Bombardment,Smoke Screen

ZSL-92A ICV
Weapon:12.7mm HMG
Upgrade:PLL-05 Self-Propelled Mortar-Howitzer, PTL-02 Assault Gun(need Fight Lonely)
Ability:Carry 10 people(or 3 squads)(before upgrading)

Global Upgrade:Heavy Equipment Drop
Unlock the ZSL-92A ICV and the PG-87 25mm Twin AA Gun upgrade of Foxhole.

Global Upgrade:Hit and Run
Give Recoilless Gun Squad and 15th Airborne a “fast-speed in about 15 or 20 seconds”skill.

Global Upgrade:Repair Training
Give the Pioneers Advanced Repair ability and give the 15th Airborne Rudimentary Repair ability.

Tier 3:
Air Force Officer(1-man squad)
Weapon:QSZ-92-5.8 5.8mm Handgun
Upgrade:QBZ-95B-1 5.8mm Carbine(need Tier 4)
Ability:JH-7A Bomb,Binoculars(can find the farther enemy),Induce to Capitulate(50% probability make a enemy squad capitulate and go out of the map)

ZBD-03 Airborne IFV
Weapon:30mm gun,7.62mm Coaxial Machine Gun,HJ-73 AT Missile Launcher(need to upgrade)
Ability:Carry 6 people(or 2 squad),HJ-73 AT Missile(need to upgrade)

AFT-9A(HJ-9A) Heavy AT Missile Truck(3-men truck)
Weapon:AFT-9A Heavy AT Missile Launcher
Ability:The people on the truck can be shotted by the enemy.If all the people was dead,the truck could be captured.

Type 63 Rocket Artillery(3-men squad)
Weapon:Type 63 Rocket Artillery
Ability:107mm Rocket Bombardment

Global Upgrade:Attack Mode/Defense Mode
Attack Mode:Unlock the ZBD-03 and lock the AFT-9A.
Defense Mode:Unlock the AFT-9A and lock the ZBD-03.

Global Upgrade:HJ-73 Missile Launcher
Give ZBD-03 a HJ-73 AT Missile Launcher.

Tier 4:
Type 62G Light Tank
Weapon:105mm Rifled Gun,7.62mm Coaxial MG
Ability:Smoke Screen

PLL-05 120mm Self-Propelled Mortar-Howitzer
Weapon: 120mm Mortar-Howitzer(just like Stug 42)
Ability: 120mm Bombardment

Type 84 ARV
Weapon: 12.7mm HMG
Ability: Advanced Repair, Repair Tank Debris

Global Upgrade: Tank Smoke Grenade Launcher
Give Type 62G Light Tank, VT-1A and ZTZ-99A2 Smoke Screen ability.

Buildings built by the Airborne Pioneer
Sandbags,Wire,Anti-Infantry Mines,Anti-tank Cones
Foxhole
Weapon:None
Upgrade:PG-87 25mm Twin AA Gun or Medical Station
Ability:Hold 6 people(or 2 squad,before upgrading)

105mm Light Howitzer
Weapon:105mm Light Howitzer
Ability:105mm Howitzer Bombardment(need Howitzer mode),AT mode/Howitzer mode

Command Tree
Ability:H-6K Bomber Cluster Bombs
Place in the tech tree:The Future is Now PHL-03

Unit:Airborne Reconnaissance
Place in the tech tree:PLA SOF
Weapon:QBZ-03 Assault Rifle
Upgrade:QCW-05 SMG,Type 78 82mm Recoilless Gun
Ability:C4,Bundle Grenades

Ability:WZ-10 Fierce Thunderbolt Attack Helicopter
Place in the tech tree:Q-5 Fantan
Weapon:23mm gun,AKD-10 Missile

I don't think foxholes should be included. Slit Trench-like emplacements slow gameplay down significantly and end up with a lot of static pins.

If I had my choice, I'd go for completely divergent play styles between Army, Marines, PLA, and whatever additional faction China gets. I'm not sure how different Army and Marines can really be, or how different PLA Ground Forces and Airborne can be.

Comments directly related to this list:
I think the medical evacuation vehicle should really be replaced. The 12.7mm machine gun is as powerful as the HMMVV CROWs, which is a tier 1 upgraded unit. PLA has to upgrade a tier 3 unit (the "halftrack") to a medical unit, loses the weapon on the unit, and has to spend munitions to use it in the field. Yes, they have base sector healing, but I think that still holds as a standard for on-the-field healing, which should be expensive to use especially since it can be used to quite good effect in combat.

15th Airborne are at-present too powerful. PLA has to wait until tier 2 to get comparable troops, which get no anti-tank, and the grenade launcher upgrade will probably do quite a lot more damage than the Regulars global LMG upgrade.

SX-1 should not come so early I think. The Bren Carrier's reputation as the "Tier 1 Tank" is well deserved, and the Humvee already has similar durability. Even if it's not as durable as the Bren or Humvee, I can see this enabling an early game like the clowncar pio flamerspam for the Russians in CoH2.

Marksman team should not be able to cloak like PLA sniper or Marine sniper, but like Army sniper at best. Having two in the sniper team makes them so much more resilient against humvees and other snipers.

Jiefang Supply Truck: People rarely use Vampire Halftracks, and basically never use halftracks just to carry troops around. This would be a novelty unit at best, especially since the more useful part of a Vampire Halftrack (at least in my opinion) was the radar, since the Vampire didn't actually cut off sectors. This may work if it was changed to function more like a Scout Car (lock down sectors like an Observation Post), but without a weapon I'm not sure it's really an upgrade to have to pay popcap to use this compared to no popcap for an observation post.

I don't know about including the Repair Training upgrade in terms of upgrading Pioneer repair. Wehrmacht does get improved repair on their pioneers, but only with Vet 3 Support, which costs something like 550 manpower and 90 fuel to get there. I definitely would not give 15th Airborne any ability to repair whatsoever, otherwise it's too easy to save your front-line vehicles after they've blundered into mines or whatnot.

I question the Officer's usefulness, but the "Capitulate" ability should never be included. Even if it's only a 33% chance, having that chance to make your enemy automatically lose a vet 3 infantry unit is way too powerful.

Attack Mode/Defense Mode doesn't seem like it belongs. Units aren't being produced continuously in Company of Heroes like in other strategy games, so if it's a toggle then I can just choose one toggle when I need to produce one thing, and choose the other when I need to produce the other thing, so in that case it's just a nuisance. If it's a permanent choice between the two, that should be reserved for doctrines. There's enough resource scarcity that if I get one of the units now, I won't be able to get the other unit for a while, so there's already plenty of choice in what to build without making things unnecessarily restrictive to the point of losing games because of it.

ZBD-04 should not be able to have both the 10mm rifled gun and the 30mm gun at the same time. That makes it strictly better than the ZBD-03.

I'll post later on the thought processes behind the choices I made in my list.

For the ZBD-04,I did't believe that it have 100mm gun,30mm gun and 7.62mm MG when I first saw it in 2009.But it does have these weapons.It is an improved version of BMP-3.Maybe we can use Type 62G Light Tank.
For the 15th Aurborne,I don't have other ideas.But the QLB-06 upgrade must need Tier 2,and it will make the 15th Airborne more slow.It may be more balanced.
For the SX-1,that is a very “crispy” car.It just have a frame,it even don't have glass.So it will not become another Bren Carrier.
For the Jiefang Supply Truck,I will change it.It will become a thing that is like Observation.
For the WZ751,it's a strange thing.But I don't have other ideas.I don't want to use the US Medical skills.
For the Officer,I don't have a better idea.Maybe something that can help airborne attack.
For the Foxhole,that's just a defence building.I don't want 15th Airborne to become PE.If 15th Airborne dropped from the transport plane,they would be surrounded.So a foxhole can help them.And the PG-87 is the equipment of 15th Airborne.

If I remember correctly, the developers have often stated they're working more on a game and less on a simulation, so 100% accuracy doesn't matter as much to them. Foxholes, for example, are used extensively by the U.S. armed forces to my knowledge (someone please correct me if I'm wrong), but they don't appear in either vCoH or Modern Combat. I think that's a good thing, playing against Brits in 1v1 in vCoH can turn into one giant, painful slog if they get a slit trench on your cutoff. Also, while airborne are likely to be surrounded in real world terms, in this game they won't have enemies attacking from every side and they'll have a base to return to. It should be a pretty even fight, really.

That being said, I don't want to see the new PLA faction turn into Panzer Elite either, just that it seemed like it could take easy inspiration from Panzer Elite. The Panzer Elite faction had some very serious flaws, and some very serious overpowering strengths which are best avoided. On the other hand, Panzer Elite and 15th Airborne are both very specialized formations compared to the broad expanse of the Wehrmacht or the PLA as a whole, and 15th Airborne's lack of heavy vehicles also meshes well with the Panzer Elite design philosophy.

For the ZBD-04, what might work is some kind of munitions-activated ability. Have the 30mm autocannon be disabled to start with, allow a global tech upgrade to unlock it, and then allow the PLA player to spend 25 or 40 munitions or something to use it for a limited period of time. That way it serves as medium anti-vehicle, but in a pinch can serve as heavy anti-infantry without overshadowing the ZBD-03.

I also looked up the Type 62 Light Tank earlier, and from what I was reading it only has an 85mm gun. This could easily be included in the list in a separate role, since the 85mm gun will probably have the effectiveness against modern armor that the 37mm gun of the M8, T17, Stuart, and Tetrarch had in 1944 in WW2. The 100mm ZBD-04 can function kind of like the 75mm Sherman or Panzer IV in terms of anti-tank/anti-vehicle (but be worse against infantry), and the Type 62 can function as an all-around mid-range vehicle like the M8. Moderately effective against infantry (but not as good against infantry as a Puma or ZBD-03 or ZBD-05), but better against vehicles, and more heavily armored than the ZBD series.

What could be done with the 15th Airborne squad is make it a tier 0 build, and give it different "packages" kind of like how Panzer Grenadiers work. Tier 0 are built with the Engineering package by default but can be upgraded to Combat, Assault, or Anti-tank packages depending on which tiers you have built. It's not a particularly elegant solution though, and runs into the typical Panzer Elite problem of overspecialization, where each unit you have is good at one thing, and only that one thing. I would expect Airborne to have a lot more flexibility than that in combat situations because they can't always rely on their support units being right there like a more traditional army can. On the other hand, I don't think they should be able to get absolutely everything and the army philosophy as a whole should require a lot more consideration in terms of combined arms than a U.S. style brute-force approach of Rifles, Javelins, and Bradleys with maybe a mortar or two thrown in. It's a difficult question, that's for certain.

For the healing, could always give them the ability to deploy forward triage stations, like the British casualty clearing stations, but cheaper and costing maybe 25 munitions or so to use. Will give them the potential ability to stay in the field and hold a position longer, without giving them free healing, or mobile healing, that would outshine the PLA's halftrack upgrade. The alternative is to give them Wehrmacht-style one-use Medpacs if they gain the same kind of veterancy bonuses as Wehrmacht (passive healing at vet 1, etc.) and if they gain veterancy using PE-style group veterancy. It'll almost be like purchasing veterancy, except if you lose squads you still lose the veterancy.

Officers boosting nearby units didn't work too well for the British army. It either turned into a game where your lieutenants kept getting killed and you couldn't go anywhere or do anything, or you got a lieutenant that got to vet 3 and made a massive blob of death and charged everything in front of you. I always liked the idea of the Wehrmacht Officer being able to call in his mortar barrage, which is why I wanted to give a similar ability to a forward observer-type sniper unit for Airborne. It would be more expensive than a U.S. Army sniper, and less effective than a PLA or Marine sniper, but be more resilient and be a relatively easy way to give some medium strength artillery to a faction that's not likely to receive much in the way of doctrinal on (or off-map) artillery, owing to the U.S. being stated to have air superiority in the lore.

The foxhole is a general defense building for every army.It's just like Wehrmacht Bunker.But it is more larger than the English one.It has PG-87 25mm AA gun and Medical Station upgrade.Just like the Bunker.
The PLA Ground Force ZBD/ZTD-05 is like Wehrmacht Puma and its gun upgrade version.But the AFT-9A AT Missile Truck is good at anti-tank mission.According to some news,PLA use ZBD-04 instead of Type 62 Light Tank.I don't know PLA Airborne's equipment.The Russian Airborne has BMD-1/2/3/4 Airborne IFVs,2S25 125mm Airborne Tank(Tank Destroyer) and 2S9 120mm Self-Propelled Mortar-Howitzer.But I only know PLA have ZBD-03 Airborne IFV.

chinatown90 wrote:Jiefang Truck
Weapon:None
HP:much less than ZSL-92A,can be destroyed easily just by MG
Ability:Carry 12 people(or 4 squad),Supply Station(Just like the Observation).

I don't a supply truck is useful in real airborne force, because they don't have a supply line since they usually fight behind ememy frontline, and all their supplies are airdorpped from plane.

chinatown90 wrote:ZBD-04 IFV
Weapon:100mm Rifled Gun,30mm Gun(need to upgrade),7.62mm Coaxial Machine Gun
Upgrade:Adding 30mm Gun
Ability:Gunshot AT Missile

ZBD-04's too heavy, not capable for airdrop. Maybe use it as a replacement of T59 would be better.

HELLOBANANAPHONE wrote:I also looked up the Type 62 Light Tank earlier, and from what I was reading it only has an 85mm gun. This could easily be included in the list in a separate role, since the 85mm gun will probably have the effectiveness against modern armor that the 37mm gun of the M8, T17, Stuart, and Tetrarch had in 1944 in WW2. The 100mm ZBD-04 can function kind of like the 75mm Sherman or Panzer IV in terms of anti-tank/anti-vehicle (but be worse against infantry), and the Type 62 can function as an all-around mid-range vehicle like the M8. Moderately effective against infantry (but not as good against infantry as a Puma or ZBD-03 or ZBD-05), but better against vehicles, and more heavily armored than the ZBD series.

There is a upgrade version of Type 62 called Type 62G, armed with 105mm rifled gun. you can find it on Wikipedia.

The Type 62G Light Tank has been ready.Thanks.If Type 62G displace the ZBD-04,I think it can be faster and crisper than the Type 59D.
Such Jiefang Truck is like Observation.I don't have a better idea.Maybe a Airdrop Station.

There doesn't have to be a replacement for the Observation Post if the other three armies are using it.

As for the ZBD-04 and other vehicles that are too heavy to be airdropped, the idea I put forward in my list was that as the Airborne become more deeply involved in the battle they gain additional logistical support by teching up. At first they only get stuff that can be airdropped, but the longer they're in the battle the more chance they have of actually developing supply lines and receiving support from specialized formations in the PLA or Marines or something along those lines.

In 10 years in the Marine Corps, I dug one fighting hole, and that was in MCT. We don't use those anymore, certainly not extensively.

The new patch feels very unbalanced to me. Maybe, I just need to play a bit more to get a better feel for it.