CoH: Modern Combat

The Soldier wrote:That, my friend, is a Javaline. Very effective versus tanks.

The Cark Gustav is the weapon the Airborne and MARSOC can get. Damn, if you haven't tried that with a vet 3 offesnive veterancy squad, then you're not seeing it's full potential.

Well I use a javelin team... thing is it takes forever to get anywhere. A marine squad with a SMAW is more effective than a javelin team... at least for me.

I also have a question... the javelin team whilein a building doesn't give the option to "deploy" or set up. Is that a bug?

Well, it takes some work to get abilites to work in buildings. Also, if you see, you can't use abilites in buildings with any other squads. So I guess it's intended.

Shove the javelin in a stryker, it will do wonders when the Type 59D thinks it has an easy kill and moves up close to the stryker.

Javelins and SMAW marines have the exact same speed, the javelin has a longer range (setup), more damage and better accuracy. So your Javelins are the best bet versus a heavy armor opponent.

spartasmaximus wrote:I also have a question... the javelin team whilein a building doesn't give the option to "deploy" or set up. Is that a bug?

That is intentional, wouldn't exactly be fair to have a javelin team in a building and able to fire rockets across the map at targets.

Darkbladecr wrote:Shove the javelin in a stryker, it will do wonders when the Type 59D thinks it has an easy kill and moves up close to the stryker.

Javelins and SMAW marines have the exact same speed, the javelin has a longer range (setup), more damage and better accuracy. So your Javelins are the best bet versus a heavy armor opponent.

spartasmaximus wrote:I also have a question... the javelin team whilein a building doesn't give the option to "deploy" or set up. Is that a bug?

That is intentional, wouldn't exactly be fair to have a javelin team in a building and able to fire rockets across the map at targets.

Oh... well I thought if a building didn't had a roof lol why couldn't they fire. I even went trhough the trouble or pomelling a building to open a... "roofway" for the javelin team . Dumb idea I guess.

How is PLA supposed to kill an Abrams (or even worse, a TUSK) without relying on doctrinal abilities, or the US player being stupid enough to leave it parked in front of a bunch of AT guns for a while?

See an Abrams take on first 4 Type 59D (with a little, but not too much, help from other units), then 5 Type 59Ds (including getting pinned in a corner with no support at 5% health), and win: http://www.gamereplays.org/companyofheroes/replays.php?game=25&show=details&id=282915

And yes, my micro in this game is a little derp; that doesn't detract from the ridiculousness of the situation.

I watched your replay and at first I was thinking what the non-doctrinal hard-counters and light-counters for PLA against Abrams. These are of course,
Hard Counters:
PLA AT gun
Type 59d in numbers(supposedly)

soft counters:
mines
tankhunters

then of course the doctrinal stuff. In your case, what would have helped a lot was a SOF team with the PF-98. That thing hurts a frickin' ton.
But then....
WTF?! I saw so many shots bounce on even the side armor(like30-40 shots or something). That was pretty ridiculous indeed. Frontal armor of course but even the side armor? The rear armor of the Ambrams is already pretty hard to hit unless you block it but in total 9 type-59d's could not deal with the Ambrams.

there is no side armor in the game. There is only front half of tank and rear half of tank.

warhammerchaosgod wrote:snip

AT gun is at best a soft counter to an abrams, because the AT gun can't chase the Abrams and will bounce a horrifying number of shots. If you watch Replay #9 I think, against CptJared, you can see AT gun vs. TUSK matchups. It's not pretty.

I'm talking specifically of going on the offense against an Abrams. How many PF-98s will I need? It's already 400 manpower, 8 population, and 75 munitions per squad, for a squad that can only cloak in cover and only gets one launcher, and will get gibbed just as hard as any other infantry squad (woo). Am I going to need to devote 40 population specifically to anti-tank just to kill the Abrams? Those PF-98 squads aren't even going to be fast enough to chase it down even if they can do damage to it. In vCoH, the American has AP rounds for the AT guns to hold off a King Tiger, or can build 4 or 5 M10s and rush with those, which is worthwhile because the KT is one-time only. PLA doesn't get AP rounds, and their only tank destroyer is doctrinal, plus Abrams are quite fast, and if it does die (at the expense of who knows how much manpower, fuel and munitions on the PLA player's part) the U.S. player can just call another one in for 900 or 1000 manpower.

As for your listed soft counters, PLA only gets anti-personnel mines by default (anti-tank mines are doctrine-specific), which are completely ineffective against heavy armor, and as can be seen at certain portions in that replay, tank hunters can't do anything against an Abrams.

The best comparison between VCoH and MC about the Abrams is the Tiger (I believe). Average speed, murderous gun and thick armor.

The difference between (vCoH) US and (MC) PLA regarding dealing with Tigers and Abrams is (except AP rounds for the AT gun and mines) STICKIES! Stickybombs are SO incredibly useful (*cough* OP! *cough*) and is what allows the US to defeat the German Supertanks (Tiger, King Tiger and Jagdpanther). Stickybombs have an 80% chance of destroying the engine and does some damage as well. The third (or fourth) sticky and the ones after can even immobolize the tank!

Meanwhile, in Modern Combat, there are no stickybombs and no equivalent....for the PLA that is The US on the other hand got Green Berets with Barrets treadbreaking ability!


In short, I say Modern Combat is designflawed.

Instead of the AT4 doing a ton of damage, how about it does less damage, but has a greater chance of damaging the engine or destroying the tracks/engine? And give it to all infantry units (aside from the Marines, I'd think) - it's a pretty common AT weapon nowadays, being dispoable and all. Makes it more like the Sticky Bomb.