CoH: Modern Combat

AAMC4 wrote:
who is talking about delete the "abilities" from the commnad tree? I am talking about add the vehicles in the command tree to be unlockable... to avoid the brutal avalanche of US armored vehicles...

I thought you wanted to replace the things in the doctrines with vehicles. You're not being clear.

AAMC4 wrote:You are crying because US get vehicles in the T2 when PLA need T3...

I'm complaining since PLA are easily countered. Nothing to do with tiers. Also, tiers cannot be so easily compared due to US having 3 tiers while PLA have 4.

AAMC4 wrote:the mine are good options to stop vehicles, that is the reason because mines exist....to stop the enemy advance ..so?

Eeeh have I questioned that?? I'm saying mines are really good and that PLA need their teller mine without a doctrine.

AAMC4 wrote:companies like "Activision" have hundreds of people that work for them, this guys got a salary every month... without mention that you need buy their game to play it...

For otherwise, these guys make this game without any pay for that and let you play for nothing... think about it..!

And??

It ultimately doesn't matter. People play what they want to play no matter if it's a mod or fullprice AAA game.

AAMC4 wrote:if you have any suggestion to make PLA a better fraction you only need write... or colaborate with them if you can do it... that is it..

In my personal oppinion MC is a better game than EF...

I have in this thread but I don't believe I'm creative enough to think out a whole faction like the EF developers did with Ostheer. I also don't believe in "design by committe".

I got that a long time ago. But what makes you think it's better?

I got that a long time ago. But what makes you think it's better?[/quote]

sorry my english it is not good enough, I need more practice..LOLXD

I am totally agree with you about PLA should have a vehicle can drop mines....I suggest long time ago add this ability for the ATV but nothing happened...

About The US has only 3 building, it is totally true... I personally added other building in the US for my personal use... (I can not play online because I have a slow internet conection)...

I think MC is better than EF:
1º MC have the choice to play the regular COH damage system or real damage system... EF only have the regular COH damage system...(they did not make any modification)

2º MC make every vehicle, ability, skin, soldiers, sounds, effects etc... by themself... EF take lot of these skin, vehicles, abilities, effect by the COH community that created these things long time ago...

3º MC is the only mod with modern warfare, nobody has other mod similar ...EF only added russian faction and you can play with russian with Normandy 44 mod that is really good mod too...

4º MC developers made 3 (4) totally new fractions US army, USMC, PLA and we will see soon PLA marines...

When I look what mod is better, I search for developers effort...you can not compare EF that took their models from the community with MC that make every model by themself...

EF has more of their work finished by others...

80% of east fronts custom models are made by East Fronts Team not the community. In all we take very little from the community. A few skins and a few weapons, the rest are made by East Front not the community.

N44 Got all their Russian models from East Front, The community and Myself. The Entire Russian faction is taken from East Front with permission.

East Front has almost 30 maps made entirely by them by their mapping team for the mod.

EF & MC are completely different mods, with completely different game styles, Plus both mods were started at approximately the same time 5-6 years ago, and are to be honest the fore fathers of all COH mods out there. Without East front & Modern Combat, there would simply have been no COH Modding on a total conversion scale.

BTW no one put a custom model into game until 2009, Prior to that any models used were un-animated vehicles that just sat on a relic vehicles wheels and followed those around. No one ever supplied any of the Mods out there with any modding tools of any practical use.

East Fronts Burro Diablo is one of the best modellers and skinners in the community and has himself made over 50 models for east front alone, a few of which are :

Brumbar
Pz III
Stug III
Famo Halftrack
IS2
Kubelwagon (Made by him and Myself)
Carro Armato
Pz Luchs
Kugleblitz
Marder II
Zrinyi II
pz 38t

I could go on but it would take the rest of the page, simply put he is the only person in COH who has made anywhere near as many models as I have .

Object editor is a minefield, it has no instructions and takes trial and error to learn. It took me over 4 weeks just to figure out how to put a vehicle into game let alone an infantry model.

Seriously don't ever think East Front is just a conversion,

EF in all honesty, do not like using community work, because 75% of the time it has been used, it has caused problems with poorly made\smoothed\welded\models, or models taken from other games, without permission,
So east Front has found it much easier and much safer in 90% of cases just make their own. Much as modern Combat Has .

Beefy^ & Myself work on both mods and are basically the fire brigade, if it cannot be fixed graphically or 3D wise by us then its a lost cause and you might as well throw it away. That comment should eliminate the possibility of any "How would I know" replies.

replies.[/quote]

I know you DMz...I know that you made really good model for the community, I personally give you thanks for all these new models, I did not know that you were part of any Mod in specific...

EF just have a single new fraction in compare with MC.

I need make clear that I am not talking about the EF is NOT a bad game...It is good but not good enough for me...

I played EF long time ago (1 year at least) it was like play COH... really similar but without campaign... the reason why I decided do not play it anymore, because I saw the tiger tank make 6 impact on the T-34 frontal armor and all of them bounced... when in the rality these T-34 tanks were destroyed by a single shot of tiger tank.

COH was a successful game, because relate the WWII history and his damage system was created to make the game easy to play and based on follow the historical battles...

BK mod is a successful game (with the same 4 factions) because they decide change his COH damage system for a real damage system... not all gamers are boys, some of them are adults and like to play like the reality was...

When MC start, they only had the COH regular damage system to make this game competitive for any kind of people (boys or adults) but they finally added the Hardcore mod to satisfy some of their players...

you told the MC and EF developers start their mod practically at the same time and you start your mod starting from "0" but MC added lot and alot of new units, and especially the real damage system for their specific kind of players...

I am the kind of player that like the reality... to play with real damage system and be careful with the actions I take...I hate when you can take a tank and destroy everything becuase you need make 10 positive shot to take down with the tank.

In fact, currently EF has two and planning more.

EF has two total additional factions added, Ostheer and Russians, both are completely new factions.

I have been Quality control at East Front for well over a year. And since Beefy^ and myself took over that side, plus fixed the entire Russian faction 3d and 2d wise. & carried out innumerable Axis Allied and Ostheer fixes, Average fps in game have trebled. there. Last years small patch which ended up an entire reinstall and re-download was necessary due to the magnitude of changes made by Beefy^ and myself to the Russians, Axis and Allied factions on the 2d and 3d side....

We have also supplied and animated over a dozen new models including their new MG nest sdkfz263, obr1927 75mm gun, plus the rebuilt Kubelwagon origionally made by Burro.

At MC For over 18 months Beefy^ and Myself Do 3D plus animating & Skinning Along with get everything looking correct in game graphically on the texture side all new Normal maps,ocls,spc,gls are generally done by us. Not to mention most alpha channels on the Diffuses if needed. Along with recommendations on performance normal map and textures for fps Performance. And all major FPS\Performance recommendations plus many fixes since version 1.3. Which are generally adhered to.

Virtually all the new small arms added to MC during the last 18 months plus rebuilds of the original small arms were done by Beefy^ & Myself , not to mention the new PLA motorcycle side car combo, M1A1 Modification The Rebuilt Humvee all the new map environmental vehicle models and the New Train, the Faantan Q5, Predator Drone, plus the ATGM addons and mortar variants of the stryker .

Reality in COH is not at all possible in a large scale mod. An accurate damage system would cripple the game engine entirely as it would have to make allowances for deflection range fired at and speed of the vehicle at point of impact.

Simply put it would over tax the game engine, it is a similar scenario to the Surrender mod that Blitzkrieg tried to use and BOTB Stopped using, it was fine till half a dozen units surrendered in a 2v2, once it got past that point, the scar coding sent the game engine into retard mode and fps in many cases dropped to below 5fps and the game either crashed or came to a total standstill.

The few realism mods that were available just used basic range and damage modifiers, and then only on a very simple basis using the vanilla game as the base. Maps had to be huge because 88mm guns and tank guns were firing across the entire screen. Yes it can be done, but it is very taxing on the game Engine.

Hardcore mode in MC works. I say it works, but the game engine is struggling and only just about doing the job. & it seriously degrades fps. This is because the game engine was never designed to run so many different variations, have so many different units each with different weapons plus variants, and have so many different abilities on top of it. Irrespective of your graphics card memory and processor. COH is still a 8 year old game engine.

The COH2 engine fairs little better in that respect, and tbh struggles just to run its basic game.

At the end of the day EF and MC are different mods, with different player bases and different game styles.

Blade devoted over 5 years of his time to MC as did Onkel Sam and Firesparks and Spoons.

East fronts team has done exactly the same,, and devoted innumerable time to the mod since 2008.

As for Modern Combats Hardcore Mode, the only reason it works, is because Spoons spent literally half his life on it for the last two years.. And because he nagged me incessantly for new weapon and vehicle models.

Anyway this has gone way off tangent and I could go on forever about this, but will stop now.

Yep, aside from coding, localisation and 2D art, DMz and Beefy are essentially keeping this mod alive single-handedly at the moment. With DB as busy as he is, we'd be dead without them and are almost totally reliant upon them. Which is why it can be so infuriating when people bombard us with casual requests for new content (usually American) without considering the practical side of things... or the fact that DMz and Beefy are humans, and as such require sleep to survive.

Suggestions are always welcome, especially those regarding balancing and bug-fixing (like in the OP). But most people aren't satisfied with simple fine-tuning between patches and want new content. We have others (aside from the aforementioned three) who can do basic modelling, but none that can also UV map, skin, import and animate. Which are actually the hardest parts and which make new content almost prohibitively difficult for us.

Campaigner wrote:one faction is versatile and the other is not (and therefore loses).

Versatility is supposed to be an inherent US advantage, and is supposedly balanced by Chinese cost-effectiveness. But I agree that the PLA needs a boost.

Campaigner wrote:One faction fuckin ROLLS the other with Rifles alone

Riflemen/Marines are the core US unit, but I disagree that they can't be countered or matched. They pay dearly for their versatility. Almost every capability they have either costs munitions (LMGs, grenade launchers, AT4s, hand grenades) or is doctrinal (target designators, smoke grenades, thermal goggles, shrapnel protection, overwhelming firepower).

They can also be outmatched by more specialised PLA units; for example, the recent QBB-95 Regular upgrade provide a means of ensuring Riflemen long-range inferiority late-game. The QBB-95+QBU-88 combo beats anything Riflemen can lay their hands on.

Campaigner wrote:Then there is the mines.

Maybe the current mine system could be revised somewhat. One idea would be granting Engineers the ability to lay both anti-personnel and anti-tank mines by default (each more specialised but also more cost-effective than the US mine). Potentially removing mine-laying capability from Militia (who will likely be receiving additional functionality in the near future).

Campaigner wrote:Their other AT is not good enough.

That will hopefully be changed soon.

Campaigner wrote:You could power up the AT gun with a global or individual upgrade or make the player choose one of three modes with a 20 second cooldowntime or shutdowntime. Increased range, speed, sightrange or damage.

That was discussed internally a while ago, but ultimately rejected. Also, see above. ^

Campaigner wrote:Another idea is to have tier 3 as the support tier and tier 4 as the assault tier.

Meaning what exactly?

Campaigner wrote:Adding a buildable Howitzer if you have tier 3 would be nice.

We only recently removed the T81 MRL. Any reasoning as to why a T3 howitzer would be worth the effort involved?

Campaigner wrote:I don't know WHO got the absolutely BRILLIANT idea to nerf boobytraps into the fuckin GROUND

I believe that they were recently given the same stats as a Chinese hand grenade or anti-personnel mine (can't remember which), because previous to that they'd been destroying entire squads outright.

A better idea may be a rapid sequence of grenade-strength explosions scattered around the triggering squad, rewarding quick reflexes but also punishing lingering players more.

Campaigner wrote:The Eastern Front is just completely superior in the doctrine department. When I read about the Ostheer doctrines, they sounded great. Checked out the Army Support tree (left) and liked what I saw. Tried the Elite tree (middle) and was even more impressed. Lastly I tried the Army Fortress tree (right) and was blown away. Those doctrines are the best I've EVER seen in a Company of Heroes game. So good and useful abilities in so thematic and good doctrines!

I can't recall the EF doctrines from memory and I wasn't around when our doctrines were first designed, so I can't give you a proper answer here.

Campaigner wrote:By now you understand that I think Modern Combat is not as good as The Eastern Front and will therefore go over to that.

OK. Different mods for different people, preference is subjective.

Campaigner wrote:The competiive community is lacking as well.

It's a shame. Nobody was interested in our previous tournament.

Campaigner wrote:the most frequent posters here are only talking about realism.... That's not the community I envisioned....

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Including those who don't agree with you.

For example, I'm of the opinion that the original developers of this mod took too few risks, and adhered MUCH too closely to vCoH mechanics in the hope of copying its existing balance. Modern Combat has very few innovative mechanics and features, too little to truly emulate modern warfare... because previous devs (no names) intended it to cater exclusively to the competitive community and didn't really care about the fun-factor or a casual playerbase in general. Until recently, I'd actually found the team atmosphere to be extremely restrictive and not conducive to creativity at all. Which I think was a real shame, and the reason why mods like BK are so successful compared to MC. They complement the main game, rather than attempting to replicate it.

So if a hardcore mode bridges that gap without affecting balance (which as you said, nobody gives a single shit about nowadays anyway)... I don't see the issue.

[/quote]
that kind of things the community of players and me we do not know, it is really interesting to know why you do not make something in specific that the community request...

Now I know that you can not make everything because or it is impossible or can cause the game crash...

I know and I saw all your work made with differents vehicles and tutorials that you made...and I am totally gratefull with you guys all developers...

it Was great have a discussion with you that is a Developer and you take part of your time to explain me what happen and how COH engine works...this is how we learn more about COH engine.

I plead apologize for the offence, I thought DMz and Beefy and Burro between other modelators were independent of any mod in specific...

well, I never said EF was a bad game ( it is a good game) but I prefer MC because they have the option to play with real damage system...

who I said before: Some kind of players enjoy more play with the real damage system... not totally identical to the reality because we know that is impossible.. but for example give real power and health of every vehicle according with the reality...

now I know the reasons why you never or you decided not add this real damage system in EF...

thank you so much for the class and you time spent replying this post....

I plead apologize for the bad things I said... I thank you so much for help the MC developers team to complete and make better this game... you did not how much I love this game, It is my dream come true... COH with modern warfare and real damge system... thank you so much

.[/quote]

that is really sad...

People that can play online does not do it but people like me that really wish play online but lives in a fuck"·$%& country undevelopment and I can not play online because I have a slow internet connection...

You do not have any idea how much I want contribute with you guys... But unfortunatly The goverment restrict dollars in my country... it is necessary buy a airplane ticket to optain some dollars...

I do not know why some developers do not let free to the creativity on this mod...that is why you call this a mod "modification"

all abilities I added in this game was taked by the original COH... for example:

Sabot round= AP british AT emplacement
Canister round= British M3 stuart canister round
slit-trench= british slit-trench
PLA vehicles smoke cloud= USMC smoke cloud
US T4 and T5 = COH support weapon building and triangule center.
Medic unit US and PLA = simple copy of regular army man and add the Triangule center health ability...

about DMz, Beefy, Spoon, burro, bettween other developers, I nothing to say, only sorry...I am really grieved..=(

But now we know practically EF and MC are working by similar developers on both mod.

I just wish MC was more popular...they deserve it... it is my oppinion...

Thanks AAMC4, we can always count on you for encouragement.

Unreal-Eugen wrote:I totally agree!
Sometimes it seems that there are the cool US-Factions with spec ops and everything (The factions ARE very cool indeed) and the chinese army on the other side, just to have somobody to fight against.

...

I see that there are many many posts like "Why don't you add this cool US unit or this cool Hightech US vehicle to the game?" and of course you have to please the community but I'm sure playing the US would be a lot more fun if the PLA would be a bit more badass.

Yep, with the USMC introduced we're starting to feel that a bit too. We're hoping to focus on the PLA from here on out.

Unreal-Eugen wrote:give at least the Pla infantry an anti tank ability.

We're planning to.

Unreal-Eugen wrote:Also, why not make PlA units look a bit cooler, maybe by giving them scarfs or goggles too? (Though they DO already look a lot cooler with the new camouflage!)

Hopefully we'll be able to make actual custom PLA infantry models in the near future; the current ones are extremely primitive, and based upon re-skinned vCoH Grenadiers and Volksgrenadiers. Even our US soldier is just a re-skinned Canadian soldier model...

If that goes ahead then they'll look a lot more realistic for sure, with proper proportions as well.

South wrote:Most of my friends say so...PLA faction in game feels neither balanced nor realistic.

I'm beginning to think than an overhaul of sorts may be in order. If so, I think you should join the team as an organic advisor (given the difficulty we have finding organisational info). Would you be interested?

Campaigner wrote:I know that the developers have done alot of work since they have to make everything. But the gamer doesn't really care about that since to him, it is the results that matter.
If one gamecompany works for 10 years and the game is a mess (Duke Nukem Forever) and another works for 2 years and make a blockbuster (latest Battlefield or Call of Duty) people just think the former are stupid and will buy the latter.

Just remember that with that logic, Blitzkrieg is the single best mod for CoH (96% rating on ModDB). Making all your previous complaints about it invalid.